Klein und Greenspan

Die Löhne der Reichen wachsen, die der Armen sinken. Sozialversicherungen werden privatisiert, gleichzeitig wachsen die Lebenserhaltungskosten, die Kinderarmut und die Zahl der Langzeitarbeitslosen. Eine neoliberale Verschwörung? Meint jedenfalls Naomi Klein in einem unglaublich kritischen, Suggestivfragen meidenden Interview mit SPON. Unglaublich aber wahr: Es gibt Menschen, die ihre Meinung nicht teilen. Zum Beispiel Alan Greenspan:

Privatisierung der Sozialversicherungen:
NAOMI KLEIN: Just another piece of the puzzle here that I think is important to remember is that, Alan Greenspan, in your book, you make it clear that you are ideologically very much a supporter of the principle of privatizing Social Security and, in fact, were very disappointed that the Bush administration did not pick this up after the elections in 2000. Even though they hadn't campaigned on privatization of Social Security, you felt that they should have pushed this forward. So doesn't creating a shortfall because of tax cuts bolster the case for privatization of Social Security that you have written you are an ideological supporter of?

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, first of all, ideology is not what I hold. I try to learn what are the facts, and I let my opinions, judged on the facts, not by some preconception, which I regret is what ideology as a notion means.

First of all, let me just suggest something to you. Social Security, as it now exists and is now currently funded, will be a very small part of overall retirement income in the years ahead. There is no -- in fact, no alternative, as things now stand, that a very substantial part of the so-called replacement of income that one talks about when one retires is going to have to come from the private sector. And so, no matter what is done with federal Social Security, the average person is going to have to rely ever more increasingly on private sources of income, whether it’s private savings or working or whatever. But if you look at the future of Social Security and the demographics we’re now dealing with, the extent to which it replaces lost income when you retire is decreasing.

AMY GOODMAN: Alan Greenspan, the issue of whether we have enough money in this country, do you think that that also calls into question the war in Iraq, how the US can afford to continue this war?

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, the issue is, basically, the question of the commitments of Social Security, relative -- and Medicare, I might add -- relative to the costs of the war. There is no question that a significant amount of money is being wasted in war. That is what happens in war. And that's -- clearly we’re talking hundreds of billions. The issue here is that --

AMY GOODMAN: I believe the figure is in the trillions.

ALAN GREENSPAN: -- even if the war spending were not there, we would have these problems. So it’s true that there’s a good deal of waste going on. But the problems to which I’m referring to existed before the war and will continue after the war.

[...]

Wachsende Ungleichheit:
NAOMI KLEIN: Mr. Greenspan, I’m wondering whether you feel that you share any responsibility in the rise of this economic populism, because, of course, you took over the Federal Reserve during the Reagan administration, and when Reagan took office, CEOs earned forty-three times more than their workers, and when you left the Federal Reserve, they made more than 400 times more than their workers. So the policies that you pursued -- deregulation, privatization, free trade -- have contributed to this extraordinary division of income that is really the fuel for this economic populism that you’re now denouncing. So aren't you the one that has caused this crisis of faith in capitalism? Or, at least, don't you share some of that responsibility?

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, look, the whole issue of what has happened in this country with respect to the increasing inequality of income is an issue I address and abhor in the book, and I point out that what is causing it to a very significant extent is the fact that skilled labor is under extraordinary demand as the technologies increase, and we’ve had a dysfunctional education system in this country, both in primary and secondary schools, which is showing up in all of the studies, which indicate that while our children in the fourth grade are doing fairly well relative to international comparisons, by the end of high school, they are in terrible shape. And as a consequence of that, we are not putting the proper number of people into the education cycle to get them up to skill levels, which creates much less, or would create a good deal less, in the way of income inequality.

And I also argue in the book that we ought to be opening up our borders to skilled labor from all sorts of -- from all parts of the world, because if we were to do that, we would increase the supply of skilled workers, which our schools have been unable to create, and as a consequence of that, we would lower the average wage of skills and reduce the degree of income inequality in this country. It's a very important issue, and it's a very important issue which I raise in my book. And we have to confront this both at the education level and on the immigration level.

And it’s not anything to do with what I am proposing. And just remember that the type of globalized economy that I support has taken hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. It’s created a standard of living throughout the world which is unprecedented in history. And to assume that that is something we should be apologizing for, I find, is wholly inappropriate.

[...]

Kapitalismus und demokratischer Sozialismus:
ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, let me ask you a question, which -- you are just taking the capitalist system, to state it very bluntly, and say it’s deficient here, it’s deficient there, it’s deficient every other place. The capitalist system has created more economic wealth in the last seven or eight years around the world. And as I said before, it’s had huge effects in the developing world. Hundreds of millions of people have come out of poverty. And as a consequence of this, not on the basis of populist policies, but on the basis of policies which relate to markets, it strikes me that -- you know, you can say all of the problems that exist in market economies -- and in my book, you will find, I am very much aware of all of them in great detail.

The question you have to answer, however, is: what system works better? And I think the evidence going back to the Enlightenment of the early part of the eighteenth century and all of the events that occurred with respect to what’s happened to the world since then has demonstrated that this system is the only one that seems to work well. I mean, all forms of socialist structure, which you seem to be implicitly in favor of, have failed. So the question is --

AMY GOODMAN: Naomi Klein?

NAOMI KLEIN: Actually, I am referring to mixed economies here. I’m not --

ALAN GREENSPAN: -- what is [inaudible] issue here?

NAOMI KLEIN: Actually, I’m referring to mixed economies here. I’m not referring to state socialism.

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, the question is, when you begin to talk in terms of changing what you’re implicitly saying -- and I’ve heard this story before -- you have to say, what are you changing in favor of? And we’ve had regrettable problems throughout the world every time we’ve moved in the direction you’re implying. The poverty level has gone up, not down.

Das komplette Interview.

Ja, ja, niemand möchte mehr Steuern zahlen. Niemand möchte weniger Unterstützung durch die Regierung. Hohe Steuern nur für die Reichen wirken wie hohe Steuern für die gesamte Bevölkerung, wenn dadurch die Staatseinnahmen langfristig sinken. Wohlstand ohne Risiko oder Arbeit wird immer nur ein Traum sein, den sich nur Fernsehmoderatoren, Nahostexperten und Vorsitzende der Linkspartei erfüllen können.

Dies könnte man ja auch mal lesen.